EV are they worth it?

[ericmark]

I must admit when taking my wife to hospital during colvid so had to sit in the car in car park, I was a little perturbed by the number of cars sitting there with an engine running, I just wrapped up warm, and I have seen reports of people getting upset due to pets left in cars in the sun, we do tend to forget the EV can have a heater or cooler running without any large liquid fuel motor running, which must be an advantage.

How long the heat pump can be used to heat or cool the car I don't know? Cars are not double glazed, and are constructed like a green house, so we do need a large energy transfer to keep them warm/cool.

There's a similar one doing the rounds, where its a car park attendant trying to move a Tesla off an EV charging spot

I have seen the problems, the people coming off the train don't get to cars before the people getting on the train leave their cars, only 2 re-charge spaces, and the train takes 2 hours to return so ideal place for people to stop to re-charge, there is some thing to do while they wait.

I will park my car there to load/unload as it is next to entrance of building I am working in, but will make sure one bay is free. And I know the Lady with an EV will come and move it off the charging bay once charged. But one wonders why any one would rant and rave at a stranger, even if one does not like what they are doing. Just not British hay what!

 

[flameport]

How long the heat pump can be used to heat or cool the car I don't know?

For most cars it's measured in days rather than hours.

 

[Avocet]

I must admit when taking my wife to hospital during colvid so had to sit in the car in car park, I was a little perturbed by the number of cars sitting there with an engine running, I just wrapped up warm, and I have seen reports of people getting upset due to pets left in cars in the sun, we do tend to forget the EV can have a heater or cooler running without any large liquid fuel motor running, which must be an advantage.

How long the heat pump can be used to heat or cool the car I don't know? Cars are not double glazed, and are constructed like a green house, so we do need a large energy transfer to keep them warm/cool.

I have seen the problems, the people coming off the train don't get to cars before the people getting on the train leave their cars, only 2 re-charge spaces, and the train takes 2 hours to return so ideal place for people to stop to re-charge, there is some thing to do while they wait.

I will park my car there to load/unload as it is next to entrance of building I am working in, but will make sure one bay is free. And I know the Lady with an EV will come and move it off the charging bay once charged. But one wonders why any one would rant and rave at a stranger, even if one does not like what they are doing. Just not British hay what!

Yes, it's disappointing how selfish people can sometimes be. I think more EV charging companies should move to a tariff that charges both by the kWh and by time. For example, you could have a tariff that charged by the kWh for 30 minutes and then by the kWh plus (say) another £10 for every 30 minutes thereafter, to discourage charger hogging. Obviously, that's for fast "route" chargers. It wouldn't apply (or would apply a after a much longer period to slow "destination" chargers.

 

[ericmark]

Yes, it's disappointing how selfish people can sometimes be. I think more EV charging companies should move to a tariff that charges both by the kWh and by time. For example, you could have a tariff that charged by the kWh for 30 minutes and then by the kWh plus (say) another £10 for every 30 minutes thereafter, to discourage charger hogging. Obviously, that's for fast "route" chargers. It wouldn't apply (or would apply a after a much longer period to slow "destination" chargers.

We in fact I done the reverse, due to the way people have used the machine repeatedly unplugging and plugging back in, we have switched it off in Winter months due to the abuse. The problem could be solved by the firm running the machine stopping giving a 'free' 15 minutes of charge to allow for people to start charging while sorting out the app, but the whole idea of the charger was not to serve the EV user, it was to make money when we realised how much we were paying for a standing charge and the cost to have supplies removed, can't really say we are looking after the environment when whole business is to run steam trains.

But the problem is there are often two companies running the EV charging points, the company who owns the land and pays for the electric, and the company who look after the charge points. The latter pays the former a % of the take, which can be less than the cost of buying the electric. Of course one hopes it is more, but any attempt to regulate the price charged for electric could mean charge points being switched off.

 

[ericmark]

Just watched a you tube on a £6000 EV with a max speed of 28 MPH.

I am of two minds, one for me retired and not in a hurry it would work in the main better to my e-bike, but for every one else stuck behind me, they may not feel the same.

The e-bike in the summer can put on train, same cost as a dog, and get to Welshpool where there is a canal tow path so I can have a day out without causing any traffic hold up, but it is in the main a recreational vehicle, I have used to as a car park marshal at the railway, but as far as going to shops, too much like hard work.

I have taken it on the main A458 but it takes as long as the train, and if it rains I get wet. So there is a case for these small cars, one EV and one ICE between wife and I would work, as long as there is an ICE for long runs. But what about other traffic?

 

[Avocet]

Just watched a you tube on a £6000 EV with a max speed of 28 MPH.

I am of two minds, one for me retired and not in a hurry it would work in the main better to my e-bike, but for every one else stuck behind me, they may not feel the same.

The e-bike in the summer can put on train, same cost as a dog, and get to Welshpool where there is a canal tow path so I can have a day out without causing any traffic hold up, but it is in the main a recreational vehicle, I have used to as a car park marshal at the railway, but as far as going to shops, too much like hard work.

I have taken it on the main A458 but it takes as long as the train, and if it rains I get wet. So there is a case for these small cars, one EV and one ICE between wife and I would work, as long as there is an ICE for long runs. But what about other traffic?

Technically, it's not a car, it's a "quadricycle". There are plenty of them around, like the Citroen Ami:

Citroën Ami | Citroën Electric Car | Citroën UK

Discover the smallest Citroën car: Citroën Ami. 100% Electric, designed for urban living. Experience the future of mobility with a compact Citroën electric car.

www.citroen.co.uk

or the smaller (and somewhat easier on the eye!) version of the Renault Twizzy:

All there is to know about Renault Twizy - Renault Group

History, range, charging, costs, driving license, car sharing… discover Twizy from all angles!

www.renaultgroup.com

Quadricycles are limited on both weight, to speed and power output. they don't meet the same type approval requirements as a car (e.g. crashworthiness). Basically, think of them as a big, 2 seater, covered mobility scooter that you can drive on the road.

 

[robinbanks]

that originally cost about the same as a semi in Arbroath.

I think I'd prefer to live in a Tesla

 

[StephenStephen]

Imagine a world that was predominantly EV's and someone has come up with a new way to "fuel" passenger vehicles. What sort of fears, uncertainty and doubt would lead you to question how sensible that was?

Shout out to @pPedalPowerpPanther on YT for an amusing take. Purely for fun folks, don't get over excited.

I am thinking of swapping my ev for an ICE car ….

1. I have heard that petrol cars cannot refuel at home while you sleep? How often do you have to refill elsewhere? Will there be a solution for refuelling at home?

2. Which parts will I need to service and how often? The car salesman mentioned oil in the engine and timing belts that need replacing and a box with gears in it. What is this? How much will this service oil change cost and how often – and what happens to the old oil. Also, apparently these petrol type cars generally stop on the brakes alone – so the brakes wear out much faster – how long will they last compared to my current car which lasts over 100k miles?

3. Do I get fuel back when I slow down or drive downhill?

4. The car I test drove seemed to have a delay from the time I pressed the accelerator pedal until it began to accelerate. Is that normal in petrol cars?

5. We currently pay about 1.2p per mile to drive our electric car. I have heard that petrol can cost up to 8 times as much. Is this true?

6. Is it true that petrol is flammable?

7. I understand that the main ingredient in petrol is oil. Is it true that the extraction and refining of oil causes environmental problems as well as conflicts and major wars that over the last 100 years have cost millions of lives? Is there a solution?

8. I have also been told that you have to transport oil all over the world to turn into petrol or diesel, and these ships have in the past damaged the environment by leaking the oil.

9. I have heard that cars with internal combustion engines are being banned to enter more and more cities around the world, as it is claimed that they tend to harm the environment and health of their citizens? Is that true?

10. I have been told that these internal combustion engines make a noise when you start them – so early starts can wake people up, and driving a lot of internal combustion engine cars in towns makes towns noisy.

11. is it true people can steal the fuel from your tank?

12. what is the drop in range in cold weather, I've been told a car that does 45mpg can drop to 37 mpg in winter – just curious on that one.

13. a friend told me that the exhausts wear out – is that true, and people steal them for the rare material used in them.

14. I was also told – that the exhaust gas isn’t good for you – and if you leave the car running in a confined space – like a garage – you will die – surely that isn’t true is it?

15. next door told me – these petrol cars – carry around 40 to 60 litres of highly flammable liquid which is pumped into a steel cylinder, and its then exploded to generate expanding gas to move a piston, and turn linear motion into rotary motion. Why would anyone want thousands of explosions happening within a few feet of where your sitting.

16. a guy at work told me – he has a petrol car, and it leaks oil. When he parks it – surely that’s not right is it – leaving dirty marks on the floor and contaminating the environment so directly. How long before this happens if I change.

17. my dad told me – if you buy a diesel car – the hand pump smells very bad, and you have to wear special gloves to stop your hand smelling, and if you spill it on your clothes it terrible.

18. is it true – the petrol and diesel is so dangerous, that you can only buy the fuel at a special filling station, and not anywhere (hotels/Car parks/Home/Work)?

19. while technology is advancing, will I ever be able to refuel my internal combustion car for free using only the sun?

20. would I be better off going straight to horse and cart, and not buying a horseless carriage – they sound pretty awful, burning dinosaur juice and polluting the environment whist funding conflict and war and consuming raw material at an unbelievably high rate.

https://www.speakev.com/threads/thinking-of-moving-from-ev-to-ice.184916/

 

[DiyNutJob]

This is how Avocet charges his car:

 

[Diver Fred]

I must admit when taking my wife to hospital during colvid so had to sit in the car in car park, I was a little perturbed by the number of cars sitting there with an engine running, I just wrapped up warm, and I have seen reports of people getting upset due to pets left in cars in the sun, we do tend to forget the EV can have a heater or cooler running without any large liquid fuel motor running, which must be an advantage.

Hospital car parks - that nothing! B****y 'School Mums' do it every day sometimes for up to a hour so they get a parking spot close to the school door. And if they can do it by parking on yellow lines or dangerous bends - so much the better.
Oh, I forget, they don't want little Johnnie/Jilly to have to get get cold in an unheated car or even have to do some exercise by their own leg power.

At one local school even the lunch time food delivery guy will sit there for a hour with the engine running.

 

[Avocet]

This is how Avocet charges his car:

No. It isn't...

 

[carmanmemoranda]

More nut job facts, that aren't!

 

[ericmark]

I live in a small Welsh village, which had one twin charging point at the railway where work which was switched off in winter months due to abuse, we are seeing a car park provided for the local residents now getting charge points fitted, which may be a good thing as it will force the residents to stop parking on the street, which combined with a chicane to slow traffic and allow for where the road and pavement is narrow anyway, means it is hard even with light traffic to drive up the B4389, however the whole advantage of an EV is always starting with a fully charged car. So unless the council have provided a car park with charging points, or you have the option of off street parking in your own property there is clearly a problem.

So yes the people on the B4389 now have a charging option, but further up the village, houses as common in Wales and Yorkshire are built in hills with very steep drives, I know a maximum slope for residential driveways is location-dependent and falls somewhere between 10% and 18%, with 15% or higher considered to be a very steep slope. But many homes were built before that limit, so OK driving up or down into a flat garage, but to park on the slope is dangerous, unless there is some positive way to stop cars moving, like a Park option with the automatic, so over the years garages have been converted into rooms, and the drive has often been made so one could not use it to park on, so as I walk to the post box, I am forced to walk on the road, the buses have stopped using the road, and the bin wagons don't have an easy time, there are some parking places, but no where near enough to house the cars parked on the road.

The village facebook page is full of complains over being told they must not park on the road while a cycling event is taking place, with warning cars parked will be towed away, 200 yards on the flat to walk to car is fair enough, but on these steep hills it is no joke, even on my own property I have a steep walk from the car to the house equivalent of up 3 sets of stairs, so often park on the road to unload shopping as that is only down equivalent of one set of stairs. At my age walking up and down is not easy, on the flat OK, but hills are not good.

I can understand therefore why people want to park car near to their house, yes charging over night at £8.95p per KWh is a good reason to want to charge it from home, but more down to convenience, even with my ICE cars, (would love a ECE car like a Stanley steamer) I have run an extension to charge battery. However it was a class II charger, so no earth connected to the car, and this is the big worry, loss of PEN and some passer by touches the car, the granny chargers have no loss of PEN protection.

The problem is the cart before the horse, if you have no way to charge an EV at home, then EV is not likely the best option, although one lady at the railway charges her car while at work, and has the forethought and consideration to move her car once charged to a parking place away from the charging points.

There will always be the inconsiderate, be it a lead across the pavement, or parking at a drop pavement so wheel chair and mobility scooter uses can get either on or off the pavement to cross the road, wheel chair not too bad to turn around a mobility scooter often impossible, so the result is they use the road not the pavement, once one has to reverse once, one does not want to do it again.

As to cables, it must be tempting to just push against the cables, and hope some thing unplugs allowing one to continue. Walkers will go around, it is the disabled who get stuck. But it is not only bad parking, and electric leads, the pavement past my house ends around the corner with no drop kerbs, and the council seem to be good at that, even seen cycle tracks end without drop kerbs.

 

[Odds]

I live in a small Welsh village, which had one twin charging point at the railway where work which was switched off in winter months due to abuse, we are seeing a car park provided for the local residents now getting charge points fitted, which may be a good thing as it will force the residents to stop parking on the street, which combined with a chicane to slow traffic and allow for where the road and pavement is narrow anyway, means it is hard even with light traffic to drive up the B4389, however the whole advantage of an EV is always starting with a fully charged car. So unless the council have provided a car park with charging points, or you have the option of off street parking in your own property there is clearly a problem.

So yes the people on the B4389 now have a charging option, but further up the village, houses as common in Wales and Yorkshire are built in hills with very steep drives, I know a maximum slope for residential driveways is location-dependent and falls somewhere between 10% and 18%, with 15% or higher considered to be a very steep slope. But many homes were built before that limit, so OK driving up or down into a flat garage, but to park on the slope is dangerous, unless there is some positive way to stop cars moving, like a Park option with the automatic, so over the years garages have been converted into rooms, and the drive has often been made so one could not use it to park on, so as I walk to the post box, I am forced to walk on the road, the buses have stopped using the road, and the bin wagons don't have an easy time, there are some parking places, but no where near enough to house the cars parked on the road.

The village facebook page is full of complains over being told they must not park on the road while a cycling event is taking place, with warning cars parked will be towed away, 200 yards on the flat to walk to car is fair enough, but on these steep hills it is no joke, even on my own property I have a steep walk from the car to the house equivalent of up 3 sets of stairs, so often park on the road to unload shopping as that is only down equivalent of one set of stairs. At my age walking up and down is not easy, on the flat OK, but hills are not good.

One time i saw a sign with more than 12% was cycling in North Wales, around Llangollen. F.ing brutal! Climbed up to Dinas Emrys and spent the afternoon just taking in the view across the valley. If i had to climb up an 18% incline every time i had to get to my front door...i'd have to move now. Must get a helluva view though. No wonder the Romans never conquered the Welsh - they must've been too worn down to fight by those bloody gre't mountains.

 

[ericmark]

Dinas Emrys

That's Crow Castle is it? And yes steep if that is it.