Construction (Design & Management) Regulations 2015

[dogfonos]

Would like to know if any builders, or their clients, have prepared a Health & Safety Plan (for domestic work) under the Construction (Design & Management) Regs. 2015 then submitted it to the HSE?

 

[^woody^]

You don't submit it to the HSE

 

[Paulg31]

As above you wouldn't submit a health and safety plan to the HSE. F10 forms go to the HSE however they're only needed on projects over over 30 man vdays long with 20 people on site simultaneously or 500 man days. On a domestic project this would normally be completed by the main contractor, on other projects by the client.

 

[John D v2.0]

Yes we had to do one but it seemed to be just an online form with no consequences. I didn't think we needed it but the architect seemed to think it was important.

 

[dogfonos]

You don't submit it to the HSE

you wouldn't submit a health and safety plan to the HSE. F10 forms go to the HSE

I should have been more precise. Yes, I was told it's the F10 form that is sent to HSE. I haven't looked into this as yet so I'm unaware of the details and I (wrongly, by the look of it) assumed form F10 was the H&S plan. I didn't want to investigate this issue any further unless I or the builder needed to take action, hence my posting.

I didn't think we needed it but the architect seemed to think it was important.

Almost exactly my circumstances. So it seems either me (the client) or my builder really needs to get this done.

Thanks all for your input.

 

[Paulg31]

You might find this guide useful
http://www.hse.gov.uk/construction/cdm/2015/domestic-clients.htm

It explains a bit about who has what duties under CDM for domestic projects.

 

[^woody^]

It's a right mess for domestic work, and I always struggle to advise people. Even those who are even more involved get stumped when you ask the most simple questions about how it works in practice on common work.

I suspect that it had only been brought in to domestic work as a means of the government trying to deal with cash jobs.

But I do wonder how long it will be before wily lawyers and smart workers start to put their made up injury claims in against homeowners - and their rich insurers. The first question will be "Where are the risk assessments and method statements?". Err what?

 

[garyo]

But I do wonder how long it will be before wily lawyers and smart workers start to put their made up injury claims in against homeowners - and their rich insurers. The first question will be "Where are the risk assessments and method statements?". Err what?

I admit I'm at a loss with regard to who I should be trying to insure as a DIYer that's doing a 200 man day project, 175 of which I'll be doing myself, or indeed whether anyone would sell me insurance given my lack of qualifications and lack of cscs status/card.

 

[tony1851]

I suspect the problem here is that most accidents on construction sites occur on smaller domestic building projects, rather than the large sites.
HSE has simply dragged domestics into it in the hope of reducing accidents, but it does seem to be causing designers and builders lots of unnecessary problems.
If you do plans for - say - a loft conversion, how as the designer do you evaluate the problems of getting a steel beam in the roof without causing injury? Specify 10 men to lift it?; specify a crane?; have the beam cut into short sections and bolted together?
Chances are that in 99.9% of jobs, nothing goes wrong, so we tend to subconciously let these things slip into the background. But one day,
that 0.1% disaster job could crop up and HSE would have a field day establishing what the law is or isn't, at some poor sod's expense.

 

[John D v2.0]

Actually regarding lofts and beams, our structural designer specified gigantic timbers bolted together (one with a flat steel plate between) rather than steels, he said because it's dangerous for builders to install steels up there. He also specified double PFC rather than uc steels lower down for the same reason.
So it's not always a case of more people and equipment, there are other ways of keeping thing safer!

 

[^woody^]

I admit I'm at a loss with regard to who I should be trying to insure as a DIYer that's doing a 200 man day project, 175 of which I'll be doing myself, or indeed whether anyone would sell me insurance given my lack of qualifications and lack of cscs status/card.

If it's DIY work as opposed to managing a project at your home, then your nomal home insurance will cover you. You dont need qualifications to DIY.

For any firms or contractors coming in to work, then under CDM the area would be a site, and the contractor would have control of the site and any necessary insurance. There should be site diaries, signing in/out and all that malarky.

 

[dogfonos]

I suspect the problem here is that most accidents on construction sites occur on smaller domestic building projects, rather than the large sites.
HSE has simply dragged domestics into it in the hope of reducing accidents, but it does seem to be causing designers and builders lots of unnecessary problems.
If you do plans for - say - a loft conversion, how as the designer do you evaluate the problems of getting a steel beam in the roof without causing injury? Specify 10 men to lift it?; specify a crane?; have the beam cut into short sections and bolted together?
Chances are that in 99.9% of jobs, nothing goes wrong, so we tend to subconciously let these things slip into the background. But one day,
that 0.1% disaster job could crop up and HSE would have a field day establishing what the law is or isn't, at some poor sod's expense.

Agree. Probably well intentioned, although the cynic in me wonders if the legal 'experts' exerted some influence on the HSE for their own benefit.

But I do wonder how long it will be before wily lawyers and smart workers start to put their made up injury claims in against homeowners - and their rich insurers.

Wasn't long ago...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-abuses-british-troops-iraq-could-end-lawyer/

 

[garyo]

If it's DIY work as opposed to managing a project at your home, then your nomal home insurance will cover you. You dont need qualifications to DIY.

For any firms or contractors coming in to work, then under CDM the area would be a site, and the contractor would have control of the site and any necessary insurance. There should be site diaries, signing in/out and all that malarky.

I'm building a small extension and will get a bricklayer in for 3 days on a day rate, what is my responsibility to him? Do I improve the situation by employing him on a fixed price basis rather than a day rate?

 

[wessex101]

I'm building a small extension and will get a bricklayer in for 3 days on a day rate, what is my responsibility to him? Do I improve the situation by employing him on a fixed price basis rather than a day rate?

You have exactly the same responsibility as any other visitor to your home. Will the dog bite him? Is he likely to trip over the cat? Have you warned him about that wonky paving slab just outside the back door you never got round to fixing?

Specific issues relating to his work depend on exactly what work he is doing and what he is providing also how it relates to others working on the site. Are there any access requirements? Scaffold, ladders, trestles etc. Who is supplying them and who is responsible for checking them? Who is providing the mixer? is it safe or is it a cheap one you got off ebay? Will he be using any power tools such as a stihl saw? Who is supplying it and is it safe? Does he have the training to operate it if you are hiring it? Are there any specific risks he needs to be made aware of such as an asbestos cement soil and vent pipe that he has got to remove as it is in the way?

It really is just common sense. If you are going to employ trades on a labour only basis you have to think about all the ancillary stuff that they may need and try to get them to supply it and take responsibility for it if you are not confident to do it yourself.